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Forum: General

     one tick or two tick pause.
     
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Australia (Qld)DREAM

Single Player
dream68gmail.com

Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:51 am   Post subject: one tick or two tick pause. Not logged in.

What was the original reason for the change to two ticks minimum move in between pause keys again.....I think I am close to almost being adapted to the new two moves its just now it takes more goes to get the same result finger key timing is all it is, i guess is there any piano players out there in BD4 land that are amongst the top players, just wondered if there was and if it helps. I know if it went back to one tick per pause some of those optimal levels would fall, not all just some. I can not do the teamwork levels with the two tick version at all just too much to do with the fingers so I have given that up virtually. I just don't think I have the dexterity to do those bomb levels anymore, but I ain't givin' up yet on singles anyway....lol I'm like most of you amazed a the newer methods that are getting higher scores. That level 13 on homelands man I know whats happening, its just how its setup to achieve it that blows me away, I don't think I will ever get that level. See you in the arena all.....
Australia (WA)Wil

Single Player
wilamristar.com.au

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:42 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

Basically everyone I knew personally (including me) played without using the pause key (except if they needed to go to the toilet, were genuinely interrupted or sometimes for a little composure). Now it seems as levels get more and more refined (and with more levels, hence less time to pay each level, or less sleep) everyone uses the pause key (including me, although I hate it .. an addictive compulsion at times). Anyway, early on many people considered pausing lots cheating, so to ensure people couldn't play the game "completely" like chess (ie one move at a time) an update was enforced to ensure after a pause two ticks had to pass before you could pause again. Also, the recorded game keeps track of pauses so, in theory at least, you could play back a game showing the pauses as they occured when it was played.

The reason it was deemed necessary is that due to human reactions you could not (without super human reflexes) make a call on passing a yam two square away that was "making a decision" without taking a 50/50 chance. However, by pausing after one square you could make this call correct 100 percent of the time, etc. You can still use the pause key for such things, but not as safely. Anyway, that was the call. For many levels pause doesn't help, other than to gain composure and work out what you are doing. Generally, for levels based less on chaos or luck playing the level many times will get the method and score you are trying...

We could take it one step further and consider games with the same score, exittime and sub exittime to be ranked base on number of pauses during the game - or at least number of pauses less than 30 seconds...

Comments welcome... I think :

Franceseb

Single Player
drsebfree.fr

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:17 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

I think allowing to pause after each tick would be way too much.

I had never used the pause key as an help until 2005. Then I tried it to decompose some levels into short easy sequences (5-10-20 ticks), especially for those levels that were long runs with tricky optimized move/grab sequences. Using pause at the proper moments allows to do complex sequences of keystrokes nearly 100% reliably. This can typically reduce the number of attempts to perform the "I-know-what-to-do-for-the-top-score" from 150 games to 2 or 3. Saves a lot of time and pain.

The funniest part is finding out the optimal strategy for me. The pause can help the actual realization to be less painful.

And eventually, back in 2005, it's a combination of pausing strategy and determination that got me to 1st rank (for a short time!). :
Australia (Qld)DREAM

Single Player
dream68gmail.com

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:39 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

Yeah I think it is best left alone now as is, there are a lot of levels where i know what i need to do but I just dont have the finger skills I need all the time to achieve it, so I use the pause key for a lot of moves i just could not do live. But there does need to be that separation I think, otherwise, anybody can get all the optimal scores with time, once the method is figured out. Level 13 homelands without a step by step game, I know I can never beat, and I think it is how it is meant be.....Oh I have just discovered, I am not sure when or how, maybe since I have windows XP, not sure but the pause bug thingy has gone, i can hold shift+left arrow or right arrow and unpause now....Maybe it is just the type of keyboard...who knows.... I am probably the worst culprit for the pause key use, but i have always considered it one of the game keys, otherwise it wouldn't be there....anyway good luck. I see some of the top players are battling once again.......you know all we are really doing is making it harder for anybody else to get up here. I guess thats the nature of the game...... I agree with you Seb, you need strategy and determination....oh and pratice...lots n lots of practice....
Australia (WA)Wil

Single Player
wilamristar.com.au

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:24 pm   Post subject: Not logged in.

I think youth helps too. Pity about that :
Franceseb

Single Player
drsebfree.fr

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:24 pm   Post subject: Not logged in.

Quote (DREAM):
I see some of the top players are battling once again.......you know all we are really doing is making it harder for anybody else to get up here. I guess thats the nature of the game......
One idea that crosses my mind. I don't know how feasible this is based on what data you store from the game logs. But given you're able to display the level ranking for any given date, maybe this is possible, and would make bd4 a lot more attractive and rewarding for newcomers:

Imagine you're able to display the rankings for each level/levelset for the last week/month/year. Default could be to display scores and ranks based on the games played during the last 30 days. That way, newcomers to the game could have the reward to be ranked 1st-of-last-month in Homelands, provided they had some good scores. This could help spreading the word, telling their friends "beat me if you can!".

The "all-times" would represent the current game high scores and rankings. Way for more modest players to see what is feasible with training and experience. But new players challenging each-other on recent scores would make them play more, improve, and maybe ultimately fight for the big scores!

Or maybe I'm too old already and younger players are only interested in WoW-like stuff...

Australia (WA)Wil

Single Player
wilamristar.com.au

Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:23 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

Good idea seb. The other way to do it could be to have a "set of high scores", on showing the high scores only including scores made by players within their first "month", "6 months" and "year" of playing. Unfortunately I was pretty familiar from the word go ... asarkila was very much a novice and has continued to improve. Of course this would make us look less impressive and be tough since some levels may not be filled with any scores... it would be like playing near the game's release. It' probably too hard to implement so yours is probably a better idea! Should move it to requests or make note of this!
Australia (Qld)DREAM

Single Player
dream68gmail.com

Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:35 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

that is a good idea i have been thinking about that for some time, because when you first start it is very downhearting to bust your gut for a score of 750 odd thinking its great only to discover your ranked in the ninetiesor lower, and nowhere near. So Like Seb suggested maybe that would work or then going into a league like setup maybe a novice, apprentice(some mid ranked level) and master leagues..... The tricky thing would be at what point you moved up into each league......it would have to be along the games played rather than years of playing because you can of been playing since 1999 but only have played 5000 games and still not be very accomplished, and your scores somehow to indicate how well you have played those set number of games too.... Oh yeah,,,,,youth.....that helps....lol...then that begs maybe we need a geriatric league for some point in the future....lol.
Finlandasarkila

Single Player
ari.sarkilahtigmail.com

Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:39 pm   Post subject: Not logged in.

Maybe it's just me but running the fastest 100 meter dash in the world .. in the last 20 seconds, just wouldn't bring me any satisfaction.
Anyway, it would be fun to have more top level competitors so I guess if this would help some newcomers to come one, then I'm for it.
At the moment I'm just very very happy to have you guys back having been lonely for a long time :
I have some stuff on a ticket but nothing amazing and am not sure when I have the time to play since me and my wife had a boy last friday. Finally someone I can play team bd with !!! :
Australia (Qld)DREAM

Single Player
dream68gmail.com

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:47 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

congrats on the baby boy Asarkila.....now you will find less time to play with a new baby. maybe thats a chance to start clawing back some of them points you have had for a while now.....;)
Finlandasarkila

Single Player
ari.sarkilahtigmail.com

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:10 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

Thanks, DREAM. Don't be so sure, all those nights awake could actually increase my playing time manyfold ... ok, who am I kidding, I will propably be changing his diapers, sleeping, diapers, sleeping etc. for the next 3 years or so :
Australia (WA)Wil

Single Player
wilamristar.com.au

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:45 pm   Post subject: Not logged in.

Well done asarkila! And it's good to know that like Mark and Daniel (from Blue Duck and BareFeet) you have plans for future bd4 players. Those guys sons are around the age to start playing bd4 ... I'd better give them a reminder I thinks :

As for time, I have "more than ever" but still F*** all. Game development is on hold (as it has been for many years) until after I get some respectable scores back. I think you have scores in the bank! As for tickets... check them in! I play on tickets because my Internet provider is so shit (no choice, don't get me started) and the letency and network usage add up to grief. Everytime I get a high score I check the ticket in. I feel that's the best way to go. Hmmm, the weather is good and Christmas will bring some spare time. Beach, holidays, parties, outdoor activities or bd4 ... maybe playing bd4 is not the best idea after all. Moderation?

Finlandasarkila

Single Player
ari.sarkilahtigmail.com

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:18 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

I started playing with tickets a while back when my connection kept dropping all the time. And it was usually just at the time when I was home, so I could not play bd4 at all. My connection is still a little shaky but not as bad. I hate to play a level that requires lots of repetition and when you notice that you have to start over bd4 freezes. This can be avoided totally by using ticket. I'll try to check them more frequently, but as I said I propably won't have much time to play.
Wil do you have any idea why by bd4 crashes when trying to load Homelands from a ticket?
Australia (WA)Wil

Single Player
wilamristar.com.au

Mon Dec 3, 2007 2:33 am   Post subject: Not logged in.

Ticket use makes sense (network latency, etc). I've emailed you about the Homelands problems... I'll have a look. See email.